It has absolutely no place in society. Face coverings if any kind must be banned.
People can and do wear all kinds of religious attire, but when this includes covering the face, this then becomes a security and a general societal issue and is totally unnacceptable.
If men wore the burqa as well, you might shrug and just think 'weird cult' but because it is imposed on women, it is an outrage; and to see this misogyny tolerated in England makes my blood boil. How can these men get away with this open oppression. Not enough is done to enforce equal rights for women - from men in dresses forcing their way into women's spaces to this open display of second class citizenship for muslim women.
The Burqa is the most inhuman invention - no god would want to disguise or obliterate one of his creations, especially one that is 50% of the creation process.
We were in Antalya for a couple of weeks this summer. I found it both insane and repellent to see (less than) 1% of the women there swanning around in what’s basically full length wetsuits, hats and scarves while their husband’s do likewise topless while advertising Calvin Klein and wearing Raybans. The hypocrisy is disgusting. Funniest thing I saw was a couple of these postbox women taking selfies on the beach. How the fuck will they know who’s who when they look back? Ludicrous.
What I found interesting in Marmaris last year was that the extremely westernised hotel staff stared at the burkha women like they were creatures from another planet. They seemed even more annoyed than we were. They also often rolled their eyes when the caterwalling came from the minaret. Many Turks have no desire to be dragged back to the Dark Ages.
It's part of the plastic politicians open appeasement of the growing muslim population. Well if they haven't done it by now its going to be increasingly difficult to impose a ban which we absolutely should have done ages ago.
Absolutely agree it should be banned, and if it's proponents don't like it, well they know what they can do, don't they? I would also suggest we should ban the utterly barbaric practice of halal slaughter as well - it makes me laugh that the vegan, green haired avocado munching leftist brigade would be up in arms at the prospect. I think we'd find with both a burqa and halal ban, a lot of our problems would remove themselves.
I wrote this comment on your August 21 Stack. The idea has merit and valid justification. Seeing faces in public has been upheld by European courts as a human right! And Burqa bans previously enacted included masks of the sort worn, mandated be worn in 2020, just months after court rulings explicitly banned them. For those who missed my previous share on Laura's Stack:
"Judges at the European court of human rights (ECHR) have upheld France's burqa ban, accepting Paris's argument that it encouraged citizens to "live together". The law, introduced in 2010, makes it illegal for anyone to cover their face in a public place...the law was not aimed at the burqa or veil but any covering of the face in a public place... ...The European judges decided...that the preservation of a certain idea of "living together" was the "legitimate aim" of the French authorities. Isabelle Niedlispacher, representing the Belgian government, which introduced a similar ban in 2011 and which was party to the French defence, declared both the burqa and niqab "incompatible" with the rule of law. Aside from questions of security and equality, she added: "It's about social communication, the right to interact with someone by looking them in the face and about not disappearing under a piece of clothing." The French and Belgian laws were aimed at "helping everyone to integrate", Niedlispacher added."
Burqa bans, headscarves and veils: a timeline of legislation in the west
"On August 1, 2019, the “Act Partially Prohibiting Face-Covering Clothing,” also known as the “Burqa Ban,” entered into force in the Netherlands. The Act prohibits the wearing of clothing that completely or partially conceals the face in spaces where people are expected to communicate with each other. Thus, face-covering clothing is banned on public transportation and in educational, governmental, and nursing care institutions, but is still allowed in such public spaces as on train platforms. The ban applies to burqas, niqabs, full-face helmets, balaclavas, and masks, but not to headscarves."
FF - Bans on masks, all across Europe, laws prohibiting any facial covering in public, shopping, transportation, workplaces, anywhere people would gather - Illegal!! The headlines said "burqa bans." the laws said no facial coverings, not even masks in public. Illegal!!
And then came 2020....
Coronavirus: Germany's states make face masks compulsory
"The French prime minister said all pedestrians would have to wear face masks in public areas in the capital from 08:00 on Friday (06:00 GMT).
While individual streets and areas of the capital already have rules on wearing face coverings, this new rule will be far more extensive, covering not only Paris but its inner ring of Seine-Saint-Denis, Hauts-de-Seine and Val-de-Marne.
Paris is already a red zone, along with the southern area of Bouches-du-Rhône, where France's second-largest city Marseille made masks compulsory from Wednesday evening.
A broad expanse of the Mediterranean coast and the Gironde area around Bordeaux are also red zones.
Masks will also become part of normal life for French schoolchildren aged 11 and over. The World Health Organization (WHO) has recommended use of masks in school from the age of 12.
Masks are already required in most enclosed public spaces and will be mandatory in workplaces from next week."
France asks citizens to wear masks again in public transport
"French people should start wearing masks again in crowded areas, especially in public transport, as France has to deal with a new wave of COVID-19 infections fuelled by new variants of the disease, Health Minister Brigitte Bourguignon said on Monday.
"I'm not saying it should be mandatory but I do ask the French people to put the mask on in public transport," she told RTL, adding it was a "civic duty" to do so."
Coronavirus: Netherlands makes face masks mandatory indoors
"Mask wearing has been reintroduced in stores and public places, and the government is advising citizens to work from home for at least half the time.
Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte announced Tuesday that the “corona pass” will be expanded on Nov. 6 to apply to public places including museums, gyms and outdoor venues."
FF - Laws that contradicted each other. What happened to the *human right* to interact with free faces in public that the European Court of Human Rights declared less than a decade ago. Poof! Gone With the flu Wind! How'd that happen?!?! Who knew human rights were so temporary?!?!?
Prohibited ---> Mandated. Just months apart.
Human Rights ---> Dangerous Selfishness. Just months apart.
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
Care for some "evidence-based science" of masked faces? The REAL Science of masked faces, including burqas, what you feel seeing covered faces. It evokes the same exact fear response as seeing a snake:
Of snakes and faces: An evolutionary perspective on the psychology of fear
Scandanavian Journal of Psychology, November 19, 2009
"The prefrontal influence on facial as well as other channels of emotional expression helps to maintain conflicts at a symbolic level, where the relative strength of the combatants can be evaluated from more or less convincing displays of power and submissiveness, which prevents escalating the conflict into an actual fight that might result in injuries to the participants.
A substantial part of the signaling action in conflicts between individuals centers on the faces of the parties measuring their relative strength. As recognized by Darwin (1872/1998), the design of the face suggests that it has evolved as a means of communication. The facial muscles are unique in their function by primarily moving dermal tissue rather than body limbs, producing coordinated changes in the visual appearance of the face. The basic human facial displays are similar to those of other primates, but the human face has a more complex musculature than that of other primates, with a more versatile neural innervation, suggesting that the human ability to communicate by the face is better developed than that of our primate relatives."
...
"While sharing the common nodal fear structure, the amygdala, the different evolutionary origins also point to important differences between predatory fears (snake fear) and social fears (epitomized by threatening faces). Animal fears are essentially escape and avoidance packages for keeping a safe distance between the potential victim and a threatening beast. Some fears of social stimuli are similar: the shadow suddenly appearing from a doorway in the dark alley, or what you take as a hostile gaze from a stranger, are examples of social stimuli that elicit fear and immediate avoidance, much as snakes do.
However, reflecting their neural underpinning in prefrontal-amygdala interactions, social fears within an established group are complicated by the conflict between escaping an aggressive group member and remaining within the protective realm of the group. Social comparison processes related to finding one’s place in a dominance hierarchy are inevitable parts of social life, which often are staged as more or less aggressive social encounters. For people of mass societies there is an abundance of hierarchies in which one has to fit, involving more or less continuous evaluation of one’s social status. Fearing such evaluations, and automatically interpreting them as proof of one’s status as a loser, therefore, has widespread consequences by resulting in extensive avoidance of the social contexts that also provide primary sources of reinforcement for members of social species.
Rather than actual flight, as in an encounter with a predator, using the prefrontal brake on the amygdala to promote yielding and ritualized submissiveness in social conflicts provides means of handling fear within the realms of the group. Social fears, therefore, have a more cognitive, strategic character than animal fears (Öhman et al., 1985).
Evolutionary consideration of the predator and social fear systems provides an illuminating perspective on the corresponding excessive, maladaptive fears seen in animal and social phobias. Whereas animal phobia concerns excessive maladaptive avoidance of specific animals (e.g., snakes, spiders, dogs, birds) that puts limitation to everyday life, social phobia concerns a penumbra of social situations the avoidance of which jeopardizes human social adjustment."
FF - More of why we MUST see each other's faces in public:
Human Facial Expressions as Adaptations:
Evolutionary Questions in Facial Expression Research
American Journal of Physical Anthropology, February 11, 2008
We MUST see each other's faces to remain a peaceful, prosperous, thriving society. Fearful societies are ALWAYS subjected to murderous dysfunctional tyrannical governance, whatever the ideological variety it appears as. Side effect, collateral damage of the massive sophisticated coordinated Fear campaign? Or the actual intention? Pandemic masks, immigrant invasion burqas.
Absolutely. It’s oppressive and appalling. We see them on the beach here in Oz in their burkas trying to swim in the surf. Just do dangerous. I hate them I food shops too.
It is a symbol of oppression that we purport to oppose and so should be banned. Indeed there are many other reasons for banning face coverings in public, not least the menacing delivery riders on their sinister- looking e-bikes fully hooded and masked up in 30 degrees of heat. That is a health and safety at work issue for a start for their employers, although perhaps a smaller problem than the possibility that they have no right to be here, let alone work.
Totally disgusting and we're in 2025 not the dark ages! Now they've passed a law in these countries where they can marry girls as young as 9 years of age! Fucking full grown men with a child of 9! Makes you want to puke!
Oh yea, No hesitation, ban the damned thing but first of all, extract the Micheal à la Harry Enfield.
According to Ronald from Biddly Boing, Idlewideaho, US of the A: "isn't she probably pretty"
She may be, but she may not, that's a side issue really. The thing that worries me, deeply, is how can the one using the phone expect the facial recognition facility to operate satisfactorily. I can only hope that their phones still use fingerprint technology.
There is no place for islam in this country or any of its offensive manifestations.
Changing the subject a bit I would just like to say how reassured and happy I feel that we now have a deputy prime minister of such towering intellect and intelligence who has subtly raised the art of bufoonary to dizzying heights whilst providing amazing insights into the past.
If anyone needs to wear a burqa it is our honoured deputy to save us all from the blinding glitter of the coruscatingly palpable wit and profundity of his utterances.
Second thoughts, don't ban the burqa. Make its use compulsory.
I've got mine on now, it's a bit stuffy in here but I've got a Marmite and mustard sandwich to keep me going.
Would it surprise you to learn that facial detection systems rolled out for plandemic were tested and calibrated to look 'behind' masks? The experiments are challenging, difficult, I don't think they've worked out all the kinks yet, but we can't pretend they've not met with some success and will only get better. Masks will become, if they haven't already, an illusion of anonymity. At least for the authorities and corporatists who possess the technology.
It has absolutely no place in society. Face coverings if any kind must be banned.
People can and do wear all kinds of religious attire, but when this includes covering the face, this then becomes a security and a general societal issue and is totally unnacceptable.
If men wore the burqa as well, you might shrug and just think 'weird cult' but because it is imposed on women, it is an outrage; and to see this misogyny tolerated in England makes my blood boil. How can these men get away with this open oppression. Not enough is done to enforce equal rights for women - from men in dresses forcing their way into women's spaces to this open display of second class citizenship for muslim women.
Buying a red car makes you see red cars everywhere. Ditto buying into misogynist theory makes you see it everywhere.
Masked men are just as big of a problem. Antifa is mostly masked men...and trans...Transtifa. Your comment is seeing red cars.
It is not 'a theory' that Islam is misogynist! It is spelt out in the Koran. 🙄
It is how your comment reads, says that it wouldn't be a thing if men covered their faces. That's what I'm responding to.
The Burqa is the most inhuman invention - no god would want to disguise or obliterate one of his creations, especially one that is 50% of the creation process.
We were in Antalya for a couple of weeks this summer. I found it both insane and repellent to see (less than) 1% of the women there swanning around in what’s basically full length wetsuits, hats and scarves while their husband’s do likewise topless while advertising Calvin Klein and wearing Raybans. The hypocrisy is disgusting. Funniest thing I saw was a couple of these postbox women taking selfies on the beach. How the fuck will they know who’s who when they look back? Ludicrous.
What I found interesting in Marmaris last year was that the extremely westernised hotel staff stared at the burkha women like they were creatures from another planet. They seemed even more annoyed than we were. They also often rolled their eyes when the caterwalling came from the minaret. Many Turks have no desire to be dragged back to the Dark Ages.
It's part of the plastic politicians open appeasement of the growing muslim population. Well if they haven't done it by now its going to be increasingly difficult to impose a ban which we absolutely should have done ages ago.
Our country our rules, don't like it -tough !
Absolutely agree it should be banned, and if it's proponents don't like it, well they know what they can do, don't they? I would also suggest we should ban the utterly barbaric practice of halal slaughter as well - it makes me laugh that the vegan, green haired avocado munching leftist brigade would be up in arms at the prospect. I think we'd find with both a burqa and halal ban, a lot of our problems would remove themselves.
I wrote this comment on your August 21 Stack. The idea has merit and valid justification. Seeing faces in public has been upheld by European courts as a human right! And Burqa bans previously enacted included masks of the sort worn, mandated be worn in 2020, just months after court rulings explicitly banned them. For those who missed my previous share on Laura's Stack:
France's burqa ban upheld by human rights court
The UK Guardian, July 1, 2014
https://archive.fo/Eg2vw
"Judges at the European court of human rights (ECHR) have upheld France's burqa ban, accepting Paris's argument that it encouraged citizens to "live together". The law, introduced in 2010, makes it illegal for anyone to cover their face in a public place...the law was not aimed at the burqa or veil but any covering of the face in a public place... ...The European judges decided...that the preservation of a certain idea of "living together" was the "legitimate aim" of the French authorities. Isabelle Niedlispacher, representing the Belgian government, which introduced a similar ban in 2011 and which was party to the French defence, declared both the burqa and niqab "incompatible" with the rule of law. Aside from questions of security and equality, she added: "It's about social communication, the right to interact with someone by looking them in the face and about not disappearing under a piece of clothing." The French and Belgian laws were aimed at "helping everyone to integrate", Niedlispacher added."
Burqa bans, headscarves and veils: a timeline of legislation in the west
UK Guardian, May 31, 2018
https://archive.fo/WinLY
Netherlands: Burqa Ban Enters into Force
Library of Congress, August 27, 2019
https://www.loc.gov/item/global-legal-monitor/2019-08-27/netherlands-burqa-ban-enters-into-force/
"On August 1, 2019, the “Act Partially Prohibiting Face-Covering Clothing,” also known as the “Burqa Ban,” entered into force in the Netherlands. The Act prohibits the wearing of clothing that completely or partially conceals the face in spaces where people are expected to communicate with each other. Thus, face-covering clothing is banned on public transportation and in educational, governmental, and nursing care institutions, but is still allowed in such public spaces as on train platforms. The ban applies to burqas, niqabs, full-face helmets, balaclavas, and masks, but not to headscarves."
FF - Bans on masks, all across Europe, laws prohibiting any facial covering in public, shopping, transportation, workplaces, anywhere people would gather - Illegal!! The headlines said "burqa bans." the laws said no facial coverings, not even masks in public. Illegal!!
And then came 2020....
Coronavirus: Germany's states make face masks compulsory
BBC News, April 22, 2020
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52382196
"All of Germany's states have announced plans to make face masks compulsory to combat the spread of coronavirus.
Bremen became the final federal region to back the measures, with its senate set to confirm the decision on Friday.
Mask use will be compulsory on public transport throughout Germany, and nearly all states will also make face coverings mandatory when shopping."
France Covid-19: Paris compulsory face-mask rule comes into force
BBC News, August 28, 2020
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53934952
"The French prime minister said all pedestrians would have to wear face masks in public areas in the capital from 08:00 on Friday (06:00 GMT).
While individual streets and areas of the capital already have rules on wearing face coverings, this new rule will be far more extensive, covering not only Paris but its inner ring of Seine-Saint-Denis, Hauts-de-Seine and Val-de-Marne.
Paris is already a red zone, along with the southern area of Bouches-du-Rhône, where France's second-largest city Marseille made masks compulsory from Wednesday evening.
A broad expanse of the Mediterranean coast and the Gironde area around Bordeaux are also red zones.
Masks will also become part of normal life for French schoolchildren aged 11 and over. The World Health Organization (WHO) has recommended use of masks in school from the age of 12.
Masks are already required in most enclosed public spaces and will be mandatory in workplaces from next week."
France asks citizens to wear masks again in public transport
Reuters, June 27, 2022
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/france-asks-citizens-wear-masks-again-public-transport-2022-06-27/
"French people should start wearing masks again in crowded areas, especially in public transport, as France has to deal with a new wave of COVID-19 infections fuelled by new variants of the disease, Health Minister Brigitte Bourguignon said on Monday.
"I'm not saying it should be mandatory but I do ask the French people to put the mask on in public transport," she told RTL, adding it was a "civic duty" to do so."
Coronavirus: Netherlands makes face masks mandatory indoors
BBC News, December 1, 2020
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-55143938
"The Netherlands has made it compulsory to wear a face mask in indoor public spaces in an effort to contain the spread of coronavirus.
The country is one of the last in Europe to introduce such a measure.
The rule will apply to those over the age of 13 in public buildings such as shops, railway stations and hairdressers from Tuesday.
The new face mask rule will remain in place for at least three months, with those who ignore it facing a fine of up to €95 (£85; $113)."
Netherlands reimplements mask mandate as COVID-19 cases surge
The Hill, November 2, 2021
https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/public-global-health/579724-netherlands-re-implements-mask-mandate-as-covid-19/
"Mask wearing has been reintroduced in stores and public places, and the government is advising citizens to work from home for at least half the time.
Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte announced Tuesday that the “corona pass” will be expanded on Nov. 6 to apply to public places including museums, gyms and outdoor venues."
FF - Laws that contradicted each other. What happened to the *human right* to interact with free faces in public that the European Court of Human Rights declared less than a decade ago. Poof! Gone With the flu Wind! How'd that happen?!?! Who knew human rights were so temporary?!?!?
Prohibited ---> Mandated. Just months apart.
Human Rights ---> Dangerous Selfishness. Just months apart.
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
Care for some "evidence-based science" of masked faces? The REAL Science of masked faces, including burqas, what you feel seeing covered faces. It evokes the same exact fear response as seeing a snake:
Of snakes and faces: An evolutionary perspective on the psychology of fear
Scandanavian Journal of Psychology, November 19, 2009
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1467-9450.2009.00784.x
"The prefrontal influence on facial as well as other channels of emotional expression helps to maintain conflicts at a symbolic level, where the relative strength of the combatants can be evaluated from more or less convincing displays of power and submissiveness, which prevents escalating the conflict into an actual fight that might result in injuries to the participants.
A substantial part of the signaling action in conflicts between individuals centers on the faces of the parties measuring their relative strength. As recognized by Darwin (1872/1998), the design of the face suggests that it has evolved as a means of communication. The facial muscles are unique in their function by primarily moving dermal tissue rather than body limbs, producing coordinated changes in the visual appearance of the face. The basic human facial displays are similar to those of other primates, but the human face has a more complex musculature than that of other primates, with a more versatile neural innervation, suggesting that the human ability to communicate by the face is better developed than that of our primate relatives."
...
"While sharing the common nodal fear structure, the amygdala, the different evolutionary origins also point to important differences between predatory fears (snake fear) and social fears (epitomized by threatening faces). Animal fears are essentially escape and avoidance packages for keeping a safe distance between the potential victim and a threatening beast. Some fears of social stimuli are similar: the shadow suddenly appearing from a doorway in the dark alley, or what you take as a hostile gaze from a stranger, are examples of social stimuli that elicit fear and immediate avoidance, much as snakes do.
However, reflecting their neural underpinning in prefrontal-amygdala interactions, social fears within an established group are complicated by the conflict between escaping an aggressive group member and remaining within the protective realm of the group. Social comparison processes related to finding one’s place in a dominance hierarchy are inevitable parts of social life, which often are staged as more or less aggressive social encounters. For people of mass societies there is an abundance of hierarchies in which one has to fit, involving more or less continuous evaluation of one’s social status. Fearing such evaluations, and automatically interpreting them as proof of one’s status as a loser, therefore, has widespread consequences by resulting in extensive avoidance of the social contexts that also provide primary sources of reinforcement for members of social species.
Rather than actual flight, as in an encounter with a predator, using the prefrontal brake on the amygdala to promote yielding and ritualized submissiveness in social conflicts provides means of handling fear within the realms of the group. Social fears, therefore, have a more cognitive, strategic character than animal fears (Öhman et al., 1985).
Evolutionary consideration of the predator and social fear systems provides an illuminating perspective on the corresponding excessive, maladaptive fears seen in animal and social phobias. Whereas animal phobia concerns excessive maladaptive avoidance of specific animals (e.g., snakes, spiders, dogs, birds) that puts limitation to everyday life, social phobia concerns a penumbra of social situations the avoidance of which jeopardizes human social adjustment."
FF - More of why we MUST see each other's faces in public:
Human Facial Expressions as Adaptations:
Evolutionary Questions in Facial Expression Research
American Journal of Physical Anthropology, February 11, 2008
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2238342/
We MUST see each other's faces to remain a peaceful, prosperous, thriving society. Fearful societies are ALWAYS subjected to murderous dysfunctional tyrannical governance, whatever the ideological variety it appears as. Side effect, collateral damage of the massive sophisticated coordinated Fear campaign? Or the actual intention? Pandemic masks, immigrant invasion burqas.
Absolutely. It’s oppressive and appalling. We see them on the beach here in Oz in their burkas trying to swim in the surf. Just do dangerous. I hate them I food shops too.
Live in the west. Dress like the rest of us.
It is a symbol of oppression that we purport to oppose and so should be banned. Indeed there are many other reasons for banning face coverings in public, not least the menacing delivery riders on their sinister- looking e-bikes fully hooded and masked up in 30 degrees of heat. That is a health and safety at work issue for a start for their employers, although perhaps a smaller problem than the possibility that they have no right to be here, let alone work.
Totally disgusting and we're in 2025 not the dark ages! Now they've passed a law in these countries where they can marry girls as young as 9 years of age! Fucking full grown men with a child of 9! Makes you want to puke!
Its nearly 20 years ago since Jack Straw was vilified for saying he didn't want people with face coverings coming into his MP's surgery.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2006/oct/06/immigrationpolicy.religion
Hijabs are also about marking territory. Ban them aswell
Oh yea, No hesitation, ban the damned thing but first of all, extract the Micheal à la Harry Enfield.
According to Ronald from Biddly Boing, Idlewideaho, US of the A: "isn't she probably pretty"
She may be, but she may not, that's a side issue really. The thing that worries me, deeply, is how can the one using the phone expect the facial recognition facility to operate satisfactorily. I can only hope that their phones still use fingerprint technology.
There is no place for islam in this country or any of its offensive manifestations.
Changing the subject a bit I would just like to say how reassured and happy I feel that we now have a deputy prime minister of such towering intellect and intelligence who has subtly raised the art of bufoonary to dizzying heights whilst providing amazing insights into the past.
If anyone needs to wear a burqa it is our honoured deputy to save us all from the blinding glitter of the coruscatingly palpable wit and profundity of his utterances.
Second thoughts, don't ban the burqa. Make its use compulsory.
I've got mine on now, it's a bit stuffy in here but I've got a Marmite and mustard sandwich to keep me going.
Would it surprise you to learn that facial detection systems rolled out for plandemic were tested and calibrated to look 'behind' masks? The experiments are challenging, difficult, I don't think they've worked out all the kinks yet, but we can't pretend they've not met with some success and will only get better. Masks will become, if they haven't already, an illusion of anonymity. At least for the authorities and corporatists who possess the technology.
Islamic beauty contest?
Just deport and ban the people! Far simpler
Let’s face it, anybody could be hiding under these garments